53 posts in this topic

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This post is adressed to people who care about the future of WoW Modding, especially to those people who are programmers, scripters, designers. The list of people who can help out can actually be expanded. If you are somehow related to some content creation for our favorite game WoW, this post is for you (hopefully everybody on this board)

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I'm Balkron, a 3D modeler and graphic designer. I am sick of working with crappy software.

The community on Model-Changing, Modcraft and other related boards is quite big and seem to even grow bigger. There are many old members as well as newcomers. I can see that many of you dislike the lack of decent development tools as well as the poor quality of the existing ones.

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I want to gather a team of people that will work on promoting WoW modding and increasing its quality. Everyone of us can make WoW modding better.

There are developers among us that have already created tools for the community before.There are enough people who constantly contribute to the development of the community by giving their ideas and suggestions. There are many newcomers as well that want to learn how to do things. So, what do I want?

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The programmers make different software, editors, fix bugs and reply to feedback, as well as making tools that are interesting for the community. This is an amazing contrbution. However, this is too little.

This is what I particularly want:

  • create a solid team of developers from MC-Net and other boards
  • fix bus of the existing software
  • discuss missing software and develop the concepts
  • perform the development in organized manner by our united efforts

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The most crucial problems for the community are:

  • outdated software
  • inconvenient software (there are a lot of toolchains utilizing 010 edtior or commandline tools)
  • lack of software (both in terms of functionality and different WoW version support)
  • too many software with limited capabilities (e.g. OBJtoM2 instead of a full featured M2 editor)
  • abandoned software projects (obviously Neo)
  • absence of knowledge or time for the development

There are many talented people as well as real professionals involved, but almost everybody is working separately. If we gather our knowledge together, we can become a truly effecient team for the creation of all necessary tools, that will have good quality and a wide range of features.

Let's stop tolerating outdated software and dirty hacks. It is time to stop using commandline to convert some file or fix something. We should think ration and improve our workflow.

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You can pretty much find a programmer in any programming language that we might need in our community. There are also many people who do ingame scripting, level design, modelling and other things. People usually want to express their ideas and add some new features to their tools and to automate exhausting repetitve working pipelines.

Thanks to WoWDev Team most of this can be brought to life. Yes, there is already a sever called WoWDev on Discord, but there are actually just the people who are interested in WoW modding and just want to stay in touch with tool releases. In our team we can bring togehter people who want to contribute directly to the tool development. There won't be any passive activity in the chat with muted notfications, your participation is important.

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It is clear that my proposal mostly refers to programmers. A large portion of work can only be done by them. Their work cannot be underestimated, and should not be, especially if we talk about high quality work being done.

I also want to specifically address people who do toy-projects. We also need you. Even if your work does not seem to you as something important, a large portion of tools in this community were started as someone's toy project. Even if you don't release your work to the public, your knowledge and experience still can be greatly appreciated by the community.

I also want to address the people who do small applications or scripts for converting, viewing or fixing files. We need you too. With our efforts united we may help you improve your software or help create new one, which is more comfortable in its use.
 

We also need people who draw, does 3D modelling, maps. Your experience in creating graphic content for the game can help us improving our software through testing and feedback. Each of your has probably faced the difficulties during the work. Your suggestions and concepts undoubtedly will become the entry point for a new tool or app.

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I hope that many people from the modding scene will answer this call and we come together as a team dedicated to creation of powerful and multifunctional tools. 

You might have a question now: "How are you going to develop this or that tool?"

At first, I want to take some time spreding this announcement. I really would enjoy if these people could be on the team with us:

@wungasaurus @Skarn @Adspartan @Kaev @luzifix @barncastle @Yasuno @Vale the Violet Mote @Valkryst @Supora @Bardh @Met@ @Inico @Basto&co @Roccus @Callmephil @Mr. DK @MR.Farrarie @Смердокрыл @MrXJKz @Amaroth @Prokion @Allifeur @Alastor Strix'Efuartus 

As well as anybody else who is willing to help.

After we have enough people who are interested, we bring together all the issues that we have to solve and document it in our TODO list. There we will have all our planned changes and future improvements.  As a team of interested people we can describe all the issues that we currently have and find their potential solutions.

After that we will divide the responsibilities within the team. Of course, the work should account IRL things and the experience of the team members. That is why I want to see people specialized in different areas working within the team that want to dedicate a part of their free time to this work.

People in the team should be able to establish convenient communication and receive feedback from the rest of the team members. For example, programmers may seek help with the code issue from the other developers, if they lack some knowledge. Or the level designer can test a version of your tool and describe its disadvantages and bugs. If a 3D modeller complains about the lack of software for Legion, they might get a "qualified" answer on their question.

The work of people who release their software for free is greatly appreciated. However, I think that efforts and time put into the development should be rewarded. Soon I will create an account for donations from the community, as a reward for people who create tools for you. Of course, we will make it in some way that will look safe for both people who donate the money as well as people who get it.

If I mentioned you, you can probably help our team with your knowledge and experience. The contact information is below.

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Nothing really stops us now to gather our efforts and direct them the right way. With that being done, our community can develop as never before.

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https://discord.gg/dAZ6VW8

I decided to make Discord our main communication platform. It is convenient for discussing our ideas, doing voice calls, sharing screens and keeping chat logs organized. Skype is horrible, IRC is way too old.

If you are interested, let me know in PM or join the Discord server directly.

Balkron#1435

Thanks for your attention and reading this large piece of text.

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5 minutes ago, Rangorn said:

>Not in the list

>Exit

I'm pretty newbie in wow modding, so i don't know what everybody doing. I would be appreciated if you can join to our team, if you want to share your skills and experience.

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13 minutes ago, Rangorn said:

>Not in the list

>Exit

FeelsBadMan

 

@Topic: I think it won't work because of the same reason why it isn't working right now: People are unmotivated and that can't be changed by money or any group. I'm always open to share my experience with people (Modding, Emulation, C#, C++) but i can't see myself working on such big, "unfunny" things for more than a few days. I mean, i hope i'm wrong and you can prove me otherwise, but i doubt this will change anything.

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Well, I already have my hands full with Noggit, my project and from time to time my converter.

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3 minutes ago, Adspartan said:

Well, I already have my hands full with Noggit, my project and from time to time my converter.

Would be nice to see you in our team anyways. We will appreciate your help and experience.

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23 hours ago, Balkron said:

It is time to stop using commandline to convert some file or fix something

The command line is one of the most productive and useful systems. Please do _not_ abandon it. I do _not_ want to put 500 files through a GUI. The command line _is_ a good workflow.

23 hours ago, Balkron said:

It is clear that my proposal mostly refers to programmers

Actually you haven't really proposed anything yet. Just that things should change.

23 hours ago, Balkron said:

document it in our TODO list

Starting that would actually have been a good first step. 

23 hours ago, Balkron said:

Soon I will create an account for donations from the community

I see.

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Good idea! 

btw theres really need to merge modcraft with model-changing. I mean we need useful "library" for newcomers with huge archive with tools and topics with guides/solutions and ofc to divide em all by "classes"(eg DBC, m2, wmo, adt etc)

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On 1/31/2018 at 0:27 AM, irachkom said:

Good idea! 

btw theres really need to merge modcraft with model-changing. I mean we need useful "library" for newcomers with huge archive with tools and topics with guides/solutions and ofc to divide em all by "classes"(eg DBC, m2, wmo, adt etc)

This website was originally created for the Modcraft community but the owner disliked the idea. I hoped he might change his mind eventually but doesn't seem like he did and so I don't think a merge will ever happen. I'm not opposed to the idea, now or ever. 

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Amazing, thanks to everyone for your hard work :x And this help the Newcomers alot keep up the good work:x

 

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Can anyone sum up the progress made for people not following the daily discord chat? Weekly updates surely would be interesting to people, especially those not actually way into the development part.

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On 2/13/2018 at 10:00 PM, wungasaurus said:

Can anyone sum up the progress made for people not following the daily discord chat? Weekly updates surely would be interesting to people, especially those not actually way into the development part.

- @Amarothmade a tool which i think generates gobjects for every M2 and WMO in your client so you don't have to do by yourself (correct me if i'm wrong @Amaroth )

- @Adspartan made some changes to Noggit (but he probably would have done these without the Discord too  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ )

No idea how the discussions about CASC and other things went since i'm not actively reading every message. Maybe @Skarn can tell us more about it if there are any news.

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Development of GobGenerator version 2.0 is nearly done (test iteration 3 now in progress). Src:
https://github.com/Amaroth/GobGenerator2
Generates gameobjects and gameobjectdisplayinfo out of M2s/WMOs in provided listfile. Compatibility: 3.3.5a - (hopefuly) 5.4.7, and probably all emus with correct XML config.

I also started developing tool for syncing item_template with item.dbc (both directions possible) - again, compatibility should be 3.3.5a - 5.4.7, and again, all emus. Src should be written by the end of weekend, then tests will start.

 

There are already such tools by me, but they are on WinForms (moved to WPF now), offer no configuration for different emus/different emu versions and can work only with CSVs, not directly with DBCs/DB2s (I used WDBXLib).

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wasnt neo supposed to be the end-all ultimate tool for everything, why not just continue that?

or even better yet, if you're getting everyone together for something why not  just remake the game in unreal and get rid of obfuscated data and such problems, put out some basic template of azeroth

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A) Neo‘s code is terrible. This cant be continued.
B) Because its not WoW modding anymore if we use another engine

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yea maybe its not but its still wow emulation of sorts, you could emulate wow gameplay or whatever u want on a new clean project. get rid of all this micromanaging gazillion tools for this that

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You do realize that B would take a shitload of people a shitload of time? If you look at the progress done on that discord, it is roughly five people doing anything at all. 

Let people work on what they want. Don’t impose your ideas on to them.

Things that do help: become a Developer yourself. Bring new, capable people into the community of tools developers and reverse engineers.

The last thing we need is „idea people“.

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I know it would obviously be a tremendous job converting all that, but wasnt that the point of the topic to bring poeple to create something, I guess OP meant a tool like neo?

You can say what u want about ideas but a clean wow template module something is the ideal thing most people here would want

Edit -explanation: The optimal thing would be a repository like wordpress and then u can just plug in whatever you need.

For example, (someone, team, whoever) makes an Azeroth-Old world base with basic 12 races. Everything else like pandaria, broken isles, classes, races, you just add like plugins?(on a different engine obviously because blizzard is just creating more puzzles with every new expansion, whenever they feel they have to encrypt data harder you just run along)

I mean thats not a small task to build that first base but everyone could add whatever later, it would help everyone

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"Hey, can you do for something that would require tremendous amount of work for free ? People would like it."

Yeah right...

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2 hours ago, Ohai said:

I know it would obviously be a tremendous job converting all that, but wasnt that the point of the topic to bring poeple to create something, I guess OP meant a tool like neo?

You can say what u want about ideas but a clean wow template module something is the ideal thing most people here would want

Edit -explanation: The optimal thing would be a repository like wordpress and then u can just plug in whatever you need.

For example, (someone, team, whoever) makes an Azeroth-Old world base with basic 12 races. Everything else like pandaria, broken isles, classes, races, you just add like plugins?(on a different engine obviously because blizzard is just creating more puzzles with every new expansion, whenever they feel they have to encrypt data harder you just run along)

I mean thats not a small task to build that first baese but everyone could add whatever later, it would help everyone

This is not feasible at all. There is not point in doing it because some people like getting things done within WoW, since there is a sort of challenge to that. Taking UE and creating something with perfected tools, loads of tutorials and such is not that big of a deal. That is why most people won't be even interested in that idea. To sum this up, people like the feeling of getting stuff done in the game that is not even supposed to be modded or emulated.

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33 minutes ago, Adspartan said:

"Hey, can you do for something that would require tremendous amount of work for free ? People would like it."

Yeah right...

Literally the basic idea of this entire thread ;)

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3 hours ago, Mr. DK said:

A) Neo‘s code is terrible. This cant be continued.
B) Because its not WoW modding anymore if we use another engine

Last time I touched it, Neo's code was way better than Noggit. I could understand it at least. The problem is that it is Windows-only, DirectX based, lacking tons of ground functionality and such. Besides, Noggit has improved greatly since it is move to QT, which makes it sort of bareable to develop on.

Besides, there is a person working on another map editor based on Unity at the moment, which looks somewhat promising, since you don't have to reinvent the wheel for most things. 

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35 minutes ago, Skarn said:

 That is why most people won't be even interested in that idea. 

How can u say that  I mean look at all the threads - 'I want zone X added to Kalimdor' - 'I want Nihgtborne on 335(cos its only possible to put xtra races there)' 'I want monk on my server' 

Dont be silly its obvious everyone would like to have that, I mean I'm not saying anyone here should do anything as far as I'm concerned but its a thread about that, some kind of imporved tool. A wow repository on a decrpyted open engine would be the best thing for all, its another problem that its a huge load of work. But for example wordpress was made with no profit just developers made the initial thing then everyone started contributing. Dont be dogmatic and frankly stupid about new ideas, that shouldve been developed long ago imo

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Do it then, nobody is stopping you.

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